Curse

munky · Jun 18, 2008, 12:01 AM // 00:01

there are so many solo uw builds, anyone pissed at only this one for any "price drop" is just sad.

PANTHOR · Jun 18, 2008, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen John

i have to /unsign the nerf. i was usually always poor never being able to afford anything but i was having fun. now with the perma sf it made farming real easy and worth it. now i am able to still play and have fun but if i want something now i can actually go and farm for it. So what if ecto prices are down? anyone remeber the drop from 10k-5k? that was a big hit to everyone but everyone got over it. so really just deal with it.

Rofl the beginning of this sounded like an AA-Meeting for A/E's opening speech xD

Nürf Ursan first kthxbai

CoopaTroopa · Jun 18, 2008, 12:28 AM // 00:28

To everyone asking how this affects me:

I play UW casually from time to time. It's nice to team up with a friend and bring heroes and spend a few hours clearing it. The few ectos that I get there, which used to be quite the accomplishment, are quickly becoming worth less and less. This skill is not healthy because it severely punishes people that choose not to use it. It is bad for the same reasons that Ursan Blessing is bad; it discourages other types of play.

And seriously, lets be honest... who can say that a skill that gives you unlimited immunity from all attacks and spells (less a few rare gimmicks) isn't overpowered? Seriously... at that point, its barely even playing the game. I could have a pve only skill that instantly wipes all monsters in the zone... it sure wouldn't affect you, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

HawkofStorms · Jun 18, 2008, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by munky

there are so many solo uw builds, anyone pissed at only this one for any "price drop" is just sad.

There is a MAJOR difference between this UW solo build and all other UW solo builds. They farm different areas of the UW. All other UW builds solo the smites, while this area farms the chaos plains. The chaos plains has more monsters with a higher drop rate for ectos, and can be done faster.

The old UW run... 45 miniutes for 1-2 ectos.
This run, 30 miniutes for 4-5 ectos.

Once people who have done the perma SF enough to get FoW get their armor and start selling to the trader... ectos will plummet.

Thizzle · Jun 18, 2008, 02:35 AM // 02:35

I can't believe people are still complaining about this. People have solo farmed the FoW and UW since the game came out, this is nothing new.

Hailey Anne · Jun 18, 2008, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

There is a MAJOR difference between this UW solo build and all other UW solo builds. They farm different areas of the UW. All other UW builds solo the smites, while this area farms the chaos plains.

FALSE.
People have been soloing Chaos Plains long before SF buff.
Do a search you will see a video of an ele soloing it NOT using SF.
So its not just SF.

Stop whining get over it and play the GAME.

RotteN · Jun 18, 2008, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

The old UW run... 45 miniutes for 1-2 ectos.

Get your facts straight, smites can be done in 15 minutes, even less when you have a good spawn.

Also, SF-sins aren't the only ones that can solo chaos plains. It's been done before, it will be done as long as people fancy ecto's.

Get over it.

Dograzor · Jun 18, 2008, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

There is a MAJOR difference between this UW solo build and all other UW solo builds. They farm different areas of the UW. All other UW builds solo the smites, while this area farms the chaos plains. The chaos plains has more monsters with a higher drop rate for ectos, and can be done faster.

False, this build can be used to farm other area's in UW, not just chaos plains... it is just another farm build, and if you think its a piece of cake to do, its not.

Many runs fail due to bad obsidian behemot spawns, bad luck running past traps or getting stuck with Charged Darknesses....

If any1 is still whining, get over it!

tmakinen · Jun 18, 2008, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Indeed, my ele was soloing Chaos Planes, Bone Pits and Spawning Pools after NF came out, it's all old hat. Unlike some people might believe, farming is good for the economy (and that's why it's one of the most ancient professions IRL as well

).

phan · Jun 18, 2008, 10:28 AM // 10:28

This isn't only about ectos ; its also about beeing invincible ..

Whats the point of a game if you can't be hit or take dm :/

RotteN · Jun 18, 2008, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan

This isn't only about ectos ; its also about beeing invincible ..

Whats the point of a game if you can't be hit or take dm :/

You're not invincible, have you ever even tried the run ?

Traps, PBAoE and skills (like [[shock]) still hit you and can kill you.

Just like 55 builds or terratanks, SF is a strong build as long as you evade the obvious counters.

trankle · Jun 18, 2008, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

And yes, the value of ectos is going down, but that means the price of EVERYTHING else goes up. Stuff that used to cost 100k+20e will start to creep up in price since ectos aren't as valuable, putting stuff further out of reach of the average player.

Nope.

If a rare weapon was priced at 100k + 20e when ectos were being traded at ~5k, then the "value" of that weapon would be ~200k. Ectos were merely used as coupons for the trade.

If ectos are now trading at ~4.5k, then the weapon, still "valued" at 200k, would be priced at 100k + 22e (~199k).

Any trader that thought that the actual price was 100 + 20e, and that ectos trading at 4.5k lowered the "value" of the weapon to 190k...well, he deserves to lose that money.

In reality, the weapon is still just as out of reach to the non-farmer. And it's easier to reach for the ecto farmer, because the coupon portion of the trade is more readily attainable.

Master Necromanz · Jun 18, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

I think about the drop rate and not SF,, because its a farming build and other classes also have, sins Sf build is for chaos planes, but its OVERfarmed so i think it will be the ecto who are going nerfed in the chaos planes.

~master

dread pirate fargus · Jun 18, 2008, 02:50 PM // 14:50

I am of the mindset that other peoples items and achievments to not degrade my own achievments and the enjoyment i gain from them.

the farm that people are doing doesnt introduce gold into the market, it just decreased the value of ectos through supply and demand.

neither is it a regressive thing if ectos lose value. those with thousands stockpiled will be hit hardest and those who play casually see little or no change. FoW armour becomes a bit cheaper? so what? i love mine as much now as i did when i was paying 10k per ecto and 4k per shard. seriously i do.

the best thing about this farm is that it would be very hard if not impossible to bot because of the seemingly random position of certain enemies (and therefore traps and counters).

(any you know obby flesh eles can do the same farms too right? just slightly slower)

phan · Jun 18, 2008, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

You're not invincible, have you ever even tried the run ?

Traps, PBAoE and skills (like [[shock]) still hit you and can kill you.

Just like 55 builds or terratanks, SF is a strong build as long as you evade the obvious counters.

; wow wow wow

I'll put it this way :

It's like playing hockey without the opponents having sticks .
It's like playing soccer but the opponents only can use their heads .
It's like poker , but you choose the cards your opponents get .
It's like doing exams when you already know the questions .

Does this seem fair to you in any way ?

didn't think so
[exept the last one maybe xD ]

And people ; ffs stop thinking this is only about ectos and mindblades ; djeezes it's about the entire game etc ..

trankle · Jun 18, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan

This isn't only about ectos ; its also about beeing invincible ..

Whats the point of a game if you can't be hit or take dm :/

Skills should be balanced based on use in regular gameplay, not based on use in farming builds.

That said, SF is not invincibility in normal gameplay. It may be easy to forget, but there is plenty that gets trough SF in the PvE environment. A Sin using SF in a questing/mission party faces enough damage sources that I believe SF is fine.

Damage sources that affect the Sin directly include Touch skills (Plague Touch, Shock, Throw Dirt, etc), Signets (Leech, Humility, Judgment, Agony, Barbed, etc), Wells (Suffering, Profane, etc), Traps, untargetted PBAoE spells (Aftershock, Flame Burst, Inferno, Lava Font, Putrid Explosion, etc), environmental effects (Lava, Poison Swamps, etc), and of course, stuff like Afflicted Soul Explosions.

Further, when partying, the SF Sin has to worry about a multitude of other indirect damage, such as damage from Death Nova, Splinter Weapon, Spiteful Spirit, Suffering, Meteor Shower, Fireball, etc.

SF is not invulnerability. It is immunity to targeted attacks and spells. That's it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan

It's like playing hockey without the opponents having sticks .
It's like playing soccer but the opponents only can use their heads .
It's like poker , but you choose the cards your opponents get .
It's like doing exams when you already know the questions .

Your first three attempts at examples relate in no way to what SF does.
And the fourth one actually refers to PvE itself.

A Leprechaun · Jun 18, 2008, 03:25 PM // 15:25

"Its not just about the ectos, its about being invicible." - Is anyone actually using this is PvE?

"Its not fair" - How? If you choose not run SF its your choice, its like choosing not to take monks or something, its up to you.

"You can farm more ecto in less time" - Its not about the speed of ecto farming, people were farming the chaos plains before. Its simply about the ease of farming, now anyone can farm the money they want not just the "pros".

Not direct quotes but just some sum-ups of some of the crying I have heard.

~A Leprechaun~

dread pirate fargus · Jun 18, 2008, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan

It's like poker , but you choose the cards your opponents get .
It's like doing exams when you already know the questions .

Does this seem fair to you in any way ?

what you are referring to is not shadowform. you are referring to pve in general. the reason pve has allways been easy is that once you learn your enemies skills etc you develop builds that can overcome them. perma shadowform works well in chaos planes because it takes advantage of those enemies which have potentially devestating attacks but somewhat lacking defence. they have no self healing so the build in question works fine, while shadowform negates all of their strengths. i urge you to try using it in general pve and you will see that it is just a blatant waste of time. if it is truly godmode then feel free to try it in DoA. the build is only 'overpowered' for one specific farm which it was designed for.

Yawgmoth · Jun 18, 2008, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by dread pirate fargus

what you are referring to is not shadowform. you are referring to pve in general. the reason pve has allways been easy is that once you learn your enemies skills etc you develop builds that can overcome them. perma shadowform works well in chaos planes because it takes advantage of those enemies which have potentially devestating attacks but somewhat lacking defence. they have no self healing so the build in question works fine, while shadowform negates all of their strengths. i urge you to try using it in general pve and you will see that it is just a blatant waste of time. if it is truly godmode then feel free to try it in DoA. the build is only 'overpowered' for one specific farm which it was designed for.

Yeah, but before you needed to actually prepare your build to farm specific mobs, now a dumb perma SF can just aggro everything and not care (there are VERY few mobs in the whole game that cannot be farmed by a perma SF and should be avoided).
Farming was always a part of GW, overpowered farming builds also (I was always supporting nerfing them to reasonable power levels), but having 1 build that can farm just about EVERYTHING and do it much easier and faster than other builds is the IMBA level we haven't seen going in GW before.

Joshthor · Jun 18, 2008, 05:49 PM // 17:49

no SMART player will use a perma shadowform build for pve, its just a farming skill really, you lose half your attributes for 1 skill, your weopon needs a enchant mod, you need to constantly watch your energy as if you dont have 30 its gonna drop, its not worth it in pve EXCEPT for farming and running. people say its "ruining" the econemy, by dropping ecto prices, but i think they were over priced as it is. this game really isnt about "elite" players who spend so much time they can get the "ultimate armor" (obsidian, which i think looks like crap anyway) i think the buff to it is specifically to get the ecto prices to drop, honestly, imo they were too high, plus you could always get perma shadow form, it was just harder. honestly, why cant there be an easy way for everyone to farm? oh no, noobs now have money!